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Really, if someone says it's 'doughnut shaped' you think of a sphere?
Cheers
On 24/08/2012, at 10:30 AM, Guy Cox <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Maybe you've become Americanized, Mark. An English doughnut is spherical, with jam in the middle. Translating this into a psf is an exercise I leave to others!
>
> More seriously, I agree that you can't call structured illumination widefield. The super-resolution depends on restricting the field of view, as in confocal, Toraldo filters, etc.
>
> Guy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mark Cannell
> Sent: Friday, 24 August 2012 6:39 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Light reading on optical nanoscopy
>
> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> *****
>
> Dear Peng,
>
> Maybe this is a communication/language problem but I don't think the plotted image of the pinhole is a 'doughnut'. A doughnut is a ring, and is similar to an annulus, but pinholes are just holes... Without a confocal pinhole in a STED system the illumination pattern does not control out of focus light well, the depletion zone has a complex extended 3D structure of limited extent (it does not look much like a doughnut IMHO). Also, I think the near field probe response function does not look like a STED excitation field either.
>
> On a connected issue, the structured light approach is different as it is not a scanning point detector, but whether this can be called wide field super resolution is not clear to me as a part of the field is suppressed in a time dependent way. I'd be interested on expert opinions on this question of definition…
>
> Cheers Mark
>
>
> On 24/08/2012, at 1:36 AM, Peng Xi <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> *****
>> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
>> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
>> *****
>>
>> Dear Guy,
>> Regarding the first demonstration of STED, I think you can read
>> this paper, in which far-field STED demonstrated 106nm resolution in 1999:
>> Thomas A. Klar and Stefan W. Hell, Subdiffraction resolution in
>> far-field fluorescence microscopy PTICS LETTERS / Vol. 24, No. 14 / 954-956, 1999
>> In fact, the concept of STED can also be regarded as an extension
>> of
>> confocal: in confocal we set the pinhole at detector, which
>> effectively being imaged onto the focal spot, only also diffraction
>> limited. If the image of the pinhole is plotted, it will be precisely
>> a doughnut! As STED can brings a much "harder" doughnut, this
>> achieves not just 1.4x resolution enhancing, but to theoretically
>> infinity thanks to the saturation depletion.
>> It is very hard to do this optical modulation. On the contrary,
>> near-field optics can easily achieve the same narrow doughnut, by just
>> limiting the tip size.
>> This discussion will be in the upcoming CRC book I am editing.
>> (Thank you for your nice comments on the book evaluation!) Peng
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 4:17 PM, Guy Cox <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>> *****
>>> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
>>> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
>>> *****
>>>
>>> Apart from Mark's suggestions, Synge proposed near-field microscopy
>>> in
>>> 1928 (Philosophical Magazine 6, 356). It was first demonstrated in
>>> visible light in 1984 (D.W. Pohl, W. Denk, and M. Lanz (1984).
>>> "Optical
>>> stethoscopy: Image recording with resolution λ/20". Appl. Phys. Lett.
>>> 44
>>> (7): 651.) though it had been achieved in the microwave region as
>>> early as 1972. This is all way before the concept of STED had even
>>> been proposed
>>> (1994) let alone demonstrated (2002).
>>>
>>> It's not fair to say that only 'unlimited' methods are true
>>> super-resolution. Both 4-pi (proposed by Cremer & Cremer in 1971)
>>> and linear structured illumination are generally regarded (and
>>> marketed) as super-resolution. Linear structured illumination was
>>> demonstrated two years before STED (Gustafsson, M.G.L. 2000
>>> Surpassing the lateral resolution limit by a factor of two using
>>> structured illumination microscopy. Journal of Microscopy 198 (2) ,
>>> pp. 82-87). I5 microscopy, another technique offering substantial
>>> but not unlimited super-resolution, was achieved even earlier
>>> (Gustafsson, Agard & Sedat, Journal of Microscopy, 195, 10-16, 1999).
>>>
>>> Guy
>>>
>>> Optical Imaging Techniques in Cell Biology
>>> by Guy Cox 2nd edition, 2012 CRC Press
>>> http://www.guycox.com/optical.htm
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Associate Professor Guy Cox, MA, DPhil(Oxon) Aust. Centre for
>>> Microscopy & Microanalysis, F09, University of Sydney, NSW 2006
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Phone +61 2 9351 3176 Fax +61 2 9351 7682
>>> Mobile 0413 281 861
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.guycox.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Confocal Microscopy List
>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>>> On Behalf Of Peng Xi
>>> Sent: Thursday, 23 August 2012 4:59 PM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: Light reading on optical nanoscopy
>>>
>>> *****
>>> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
>>> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
>>> *****
>>>
>>> Dear Mark,
>>> I am not sure what you mean by "well before". Super-resolution is
>>> a term that usually refers to techniques that provides theoretically
>>> 'infinitely small' resolution, or down to single molecule size.
>>> That's why although confocal is already better (1.4x better) in
>>> resolution, it is generally not treated as super-resolution. And so
>>> to multiphoton microscopy.
>>> If you have a better candidate on inventing super-resolution,
>>> please let me and everybody know. I am sure that people are keen to know this.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Peng Xi
>>> Ph. D. Associate Professor
>>> Dept. of Biomedical Engineering, College of Engineering Peking
>>> University, Beijing, China
>>> Tel: +86 10-6276 7155
>>> Email: [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 11:51 AM, Mark Cannell
>>> <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
>>>
>>>> *****
>>>> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
>>>> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
>>>> *****
>>>>
>>>> Hmm, A very myopic blog on a subject with a rich past. It was
>>> appreciated
>>>> that the Abbe 'limit' was not a limit well before Stephan Hell's work.
>>>> Suggest you might like to research the subject matter a bit deeper?
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>> PS I hope others don't start advertising their 'blogs' on this
>>>> list, we ban commercial 'blogs', perhaps this should be extend?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 23/08/2012, at 1:32 AM, Peng Xi <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> *****
>>>>> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
>>>>> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
>>>>> *****
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear List,
>>>>> I am blogging on optical nanoscopy, in a very casual mode.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://xipeng.wordpress.com/2012/08/16/how-optical-super-resolution-i
>>> s-achieved-1/
>>>>> It is originally written in Chinese, after I gave a related
>>>>> plenary talk in May 2012. Last talk, in the noon time. And the
>>>>> audiences were
>>>> from
>>>>> all sorts of disciplines, from fresh graduate students to renowned
>>>>> professors. Therefore, I decided to make the talk interesting, and
>>>>> easy
>>>> to
>>>>> follow by everyone. It turns out to be very successful -- much
>>>>> better
>>>> than
>>>>> equations and diagrams. So, I decide to broadcast it by blogging. :)
>>>>> Hope you like it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> Peng Xi
>>>>> Ph. D. Associate Professor
>>>>> Dept. of Biomedical Engineering, College of Engineering Peking
>>>>> University, Beijing, China
>>>>> Tel: +86 10-6276 7155
>>>>> Email: [log in to unmask]
>>>>
>>>> Mark B. Cannell Ph.D. FRSNZ
>>>> Professor of Cardiac Cell Biology
>>>> School of Physiology& Pharmacology
>>>> Medical Sciences Building
>>>> University of Bristol
>>>> Bristol
>>>> BS8 1TD UK
>>>>
>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>
>>>
>
> Mark B. Cannell Ph.D. FRSNZ
> Professor of Cardiac Cell Biology
> School of Physiology& Pharmacology
> Medical Sciences Building
> University of Bristol
> Bristol
> BS8 1TD UK
>
> [log in to unmask]
Mark B. Cannell Ph.D. FRSNZ
Professor of Cardiac Cell Biology
School of Physiology& Pharmacology
Medical Sciences Building
University of Bristol
Bristol
BS8 1TD UK
[log in to unmask]
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