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Subject:Re: [mou-net] Glaucous-winged Gull, Duluth
From:douglas chapman <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:douglas chapman <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Sat, 24 Dec 2011 13:17:34 -0700
Content-Type:text/plain

Here is Alan Knue's assessment.


> From: AJ Knue <vireolanius@live.com>
> Subject: Re: GWGU ID needed
> Date: December 24, 2011 12:19:23 PM CST
> To: douglas chapman <foodrev@sio.midco.net>
> 
> I'm in Florida so I haven't had a chance to really study the pics, but first look it structurally looks wrong. The bill and head shape look very atypical for Glaucous-winged. It also looks smaller than the Herring in some of the pics. I bet this is a bird with Kumlien's genes...maybe Herring x Kumlien's? Maybe I'll have time to look closer later this evening. AJ
> 
> 
> -----
> Sent from mBox Mail
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> 
> ________________________
On Dec 24, 2011, at 10:54 AM, Terence Brashear wrote:

> I forwarded the link to Karl's photos to my friend Stan Walens in San Diego. He is also taking a look at them.
> 
> From: douglas chapman <rhameprairie@SIO.MIDCO.NET>; 
> To: <MOU-NET@LISTS.UMN.EDU>; 
> Subject: Re: [mou-net] Glaucous-winged Gull, Duluth 
> Sent: Sat, Dec 24, 2011 3:49:40 PM 
> 
> I have sent the photos to my friends Alan in Seattle. He is probably busy doing family Christmassy things (family in Florida no doubt), but will get back to me soon I'm sure.
> 
> Doug Chapman
> Sioux Falls, SD
> 
> On Dec 23, 2011, at 8:53 PM, Jesse Ellis wrote:
> 
> > Hey all-
> > 
> > I'm not out to rain on anyone's parade, but I might. I'd be really
> > interested to hear the opinions of some West-coast gull-meisters on this
> > individual. From all of the photos I've seen, the color patterns are
> > (obviously) good for Glaucous-winged Gull, but a lot of the structure is
> > iffy. My chops in terms of gull ID aren't great, but I birded for a year or
> > two in the Seattle area, and spent many winters in Ithaca NY gulling.
> > However it's been a few years since I have put a lot of time into gulls
> > (Madison doesn't get many unless you go to the dump.)
> > 
> > All that said, here's my take on these photos. Every time I look at them, I
> > feel weird about the head shape. This includes two aspects. One is the bill
> > and the other is the crown. The bill just doesn't seem heavy enough for a
> > Glaucous-winged. While it's rather stout, there are a number of photos
> > where it seems too short and too even. Glaucous-winged Gulls generally have
> > honkin' huge bills that are long and have a very heavy tip. This bird's
> > bill seems short and fairly even. There are a few pictures that seem closer
> > in line to expected for Glaucous-winged Gull, but the best photos (like
> > this one: http://www.pbase.com/karlbardon/image/140493686) show a short,
> > even bill. The other issue well-illustrated in this photo is the steep
> > forehead. In my experience, and perusing lots of photos around,
> > Glaucous-winged Gulls have a flat head and flat forehead sloping slowly
> > down to the bill, even moreso than the similar feature on a Herring Gull.
> > This bird looks more Thayer's-like in that aspect.
> > 
> > Another issue is the wing pattern, but this isn't quite as annoying to me.
> > Most of the photos and guides I've looked at say that p10 should have a
> > large white mirror, while p9 will lack a mirror or show a small mirror.
> > This bird has a big mirror. Additionally, most guides and photos show
> > Glaucous-winged Gulls with very little white tongues/moons on p8 and not a
> > ton on p7 (see this photo:
> > http://columbiariverimages.com/Birds/Images09Feb/portland_glaucous-winged_gull_flying_02-16-09.jpg
> > ).
> > 
> > I want to be clear, here. These are things about the photos that bother me,
> > given my personal experience with Glaucous Gulls. I'm not calling an ID one
> > way or another on this bird from 9 photos. I hope I'm wrong! I just have a
> > few doubts. I'll probably be up to Duluth to check it out on Monday, if it
> > stays. I'm throwing this out there to get some discussion going, which, I
> > think, is traditional for gulls...
> > 
> > Karl, and anyone else who's seen the bird, what do you think about this?
> > Have any western gull folks looked at the photos accumulating? Anyone else
> > who's seen Glaucous-winged Gulls have opinions?
> > 
> > Jesse Ellis
> > Madison WI (and currently Saint Paul, MN)
> > 
> > On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 2:59 PM, Karl Bardon <karl_bardon@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> Beginning at 9:43 this morning, I have been studying an apparent adult
> >> Glaucous-winged Gull at Canal Park, Duluth, St. Louis County. I say
> >> apparent because of the many complications inherent in identifying large
> >> gulls, especially this species. Since Glaucous-winged Gull forms hybrid
> >> swarms with multiple other species of gulls (including Glaucous, Western
> >> and Herring), where the majority of some local populations are actually
> >> hybrids, great must be taken when identifying this species out of range.
> >> For now I have posted a single photo on MOU recently seen, but will include
> >> a more in depth analysis on my pbase gull pages (www.pbase.com/karlbardon
> >> ).
> >> 
> >> Karl Bardon
> >> Duluth, MN
> >> 
> >> ----
> >> Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net
> >> Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html
> >> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Jesse Ellis
> > Post-doctoral Researcher
> > Dept. of Zoology
> > University of Wisconsin - Madison
> > Madison, Dane Co, WI
> > 
> > ----
> > Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net
> > Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html
> > 
> 
> ----
> Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net
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