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Hey, Craig--
Very interesting--could you please post links for a few of these kits?
--Any publications out there on this approach? Any thoughts regarding
its possible applicability to shared facilities, where fool-proof
hardware (as well as easy-to-use software) are important? Or is this
approach better suited to an individual lab that wants its own
instrument but doesn't have $300K?
Thanks--
Martin Wessendorf
On 6/27/2012 1:02 PM, Craig Brideau wrote:
> *****
> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy
> *****
>
> I'm actually starting to become a fan of kit-bash laser scanning
> microscopes these days. They are often built with generic parts so if
> something burns out or the like you can often find replacement parts
> easily, or find something 'close enough' to substitute in. A lot of optics
> and mechanics vendors are beginning to sell these kits, and it gives you
> the luxury of picking and choosing various components. The key drawback to
> this approach is software, but if you go with a good open source solution
> like the ever-popular ScanImage or the like you can get what you need.
> With this approach you should be able to keep a `scope going for decades
> if you keep backups of all the software and carefully document your design
> so you remember what parts are where...
>
> Craig
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 11:21 AM, Dr. Gary Carr<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> *****
>> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
>> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/**wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy<http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy>
>> *****
>>
>> Amen to that.......
>>
>> I run a private research foundation funded with income generated from my
>> day job, so even small expenses are major ones to me.
>> So I need to purchase used/donated/broken scientific tools and make them
>> work. I used a Phillips 201 TEM for 15 years and kept it in top shape
>> because of two things:
>>
>> 1. I had the schematics
>> 2. I could do component-level repair on any of the boards.
>> 3. There wasn't a computer that controlled every facet of the tool.
>>
>> So my 201 functioned at a level of other, more modern tools costing 100X
>> as much.
>>
>> Today, at least on the Zeiss side, they won't give you the schematics.
>> They, themselves, don't do component-level repair on their boards; they
>> just replace them.
>> A very expensive way to function....if you are the consumer.
>>
>> One way to force consumers into expensive service contracts or the
>> purchase of new equipment is to make sure that the user can never repair
>> their tools themselves. Maybe the accountants have taken over from the
>> microscope people?
>>
>> Gary
>> Pacific Endodontic Research Foundation
>> San Diego, CA
>> www.perfendo.org
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Guy Cox"<[log in to unmask]>
>> To:<[log in to unmask]**EDU<[log in to unmask]>
>>>
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 7:53 AM
>>
>> Subject: Re: Biorad MRC1024 MRC600 Scan and Vis boards
>>
>>
>> *****
>> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
>> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/**wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy<http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy>
>> *****
>>
>> Well, I'm sorry, but I don't go with this. I come from an electron
>> microscope background, and I know that we expected electron microscopes
>> (which, to say the least, are pretty complex pieces of equipment) to last
>> 30 years - and they did. Philips kept germanium pnp transistors in stock
>> for tens of years after they became obsolete so that their microscopes
>> would keep running. Optical microscopes, even scanning ones, have much
>> less reason to become obsolete. My 90-year-old Zeiss 'jug-handle' is still
>> a state-of-the-art microscope in performance terms, in fact it has a more
>> precise focus mechanism than any equivalent Zeiss microscope on the market
>> today. I could (and did) buy new objectives for it when it was 50 years
>> old. (I can't now).
>>
>> There is absolutely no reason why an optical or confocal microscope from
>> the 80s should not still be working at a pretty good performance level - no
>> reason, that is, apart from greed on the part of the vendors. They chase
>> the rich labs and neglect the poor ones. There is nothing in a current
>> confocal microscope which will make it perform better than a 20-year-old
>> one. (Sure, there are lots of convenience factors in the new ones.) I
>> would just suggest to purchasers that they look at the parts availability
>> for 10-year-old scopes as a factor in their purchase decision.
>>
>> I know many vendors will cry 'foul' at this (my wife does!) but they are
>> wrong, and short-sighted. Bio-Rad were supplying obsolete boards for their
>> MRC 500 and 600 scopes at 10 times or more of their original price just
>> because that kept microscopes running for a fraction of the cost of a new
>> one. How is that a bad business model? Both sides win. Many customers
>> switched to Bio-Rad just because a 3-year-old microscope from any of their
>> competitors was dead in the water if anything went wrong. The one thing
>> that sunk Bio-Rad was an unwise reliance on the Cornell multi-photon patent
>> (for which they paid a lot of money) to make their fortune. This was bad
>> on many grounds. First, thinking they has a monopoly, they didn't see the
>> need to develop their product. Second, as always happens, other companies
>> found loopholes and supplied more advanced systems. Third, eventually a
>> bigger and richer company decided that the simplest solution was to buy the
>> patent holder rather than buy a licence.
>>
>> It's not just an economic issue, it's also an environmental one. I am
>> horrified at how many top-rank scopes are gathering dust in our facility
>> and elsewhere. The only way forward is for purchasers of high-end systems
>> (I'm talking about the million dollar plus mark) to put into their purchase
>> contracts a requirement for at least 20-year serviceability. At that level
>> companies will say yes, and that will trickle down to ensure that the
>> smaller fry, without such leverage, will be able to keep their systems
>> running.
>>
>> Guy
>>
>>
>> Optical Imaging Techniques in Cell Biology
>> by Guy Cox CRC Press / Taylor& Francis
>> http://www.guycox.com/optical.**htm<http://www.guycox.com/optical.htm>
>> ______________________________**________________
>> Guy Cox, MA, DPhil(Oxon), Honorary Associate,
>> Australian Centre for Microscopy& Microanalysis,
>> Madsen Building F09, University of Sydney, NSW 2006
>>
>> Phone +61 2 9351 3176 Fax +61 2 9351 7682
>> Mobile 0413 281 861
>> ______________________________**________________
>> http://www.guycox.net
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Cammer, Michael [mailto:[log in to unmask]**nyu.edu<[log in to unmask]>
>> ]
>> Sent: Wednesday, 27 June 2012 11:31 PM
>> To: Guy Cox
>> Subject: RE: Biorad MRC1024 MRC600 Scan and Vis boards
>>
>> Based on a story from someone at BioRad who moved to Zeiss with the
>> buyout, Zeiss didn't provide for saving BioRad parts. On their own the
>> BioRad employees rented a truck, threw the parts in back, and drove them
>> down to Germany.
>>
>> We were BioRad owners in the U.S. Soon after Zeiss bought BioRad they
>> sent BioRad owners a letter with a phase-out schedule for supporting the
>> BioRad hardware. We are now two years past the final phase-out date (if I
>> remember correctly). So we were warned.
>>
>> Do Leica, Nikon, Zeiss& Olympus support equipment from the 1990s (or even
>> 2000-2001) anymore? I can't even get a simple N.A. 0.55 condenser for the
>> Olympus IX70 (well, if I asked on the microscopy bboard maybe I could get a
>> used one).
>>
>> And computer equipment. We have an Andor camera, only two years old, with
>> a PCI board but all the new computers come with PCI Express. This delayed
>> a recent repair by a week when the computer on our TIRF system died. And
>> Nikon doesn't even provide support for 32 bit computers anymore.
>>
>> Regardless how Zeiss handled the Biorad buyout, a decade later the
>> technology has changed so much that it's time to let Zeiss off the hook.
>> ______________________________**__________________________
>> Michael Cammer, Assistant Research Scientist
>> Skirball Institute of Biomolecular Medicine
>> Lab: (212) 263-3208 Cell: (914) 309-3270
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:CONFOCALMICROSCOPY@**LISTS.UMN.EDU<[log in to unmask]>]
>> On Behalf Of Guy Cox
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 8:33 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]**EDU<[log in to unmask]>
>> Subject: Re: Biorad MRC1024 MRC600 Scan and Vis boards
>>
>>
>> So how is it that Zeiss, who claim to do their best to support Bio-Rad
>> customers after the takeover, have not bought these boards? Maybe list
>> members should draw their own conclusions.
>>
>> Guy
>>
>> Optical Imaging Techniques in Cell Biology
>> by Guy Cox CRC Press / Taylor& Francis
>> http://www.guycox.com/optical.**htm<http://www.guycox.com/optical.htm>
>> ______________________________**________________
>> Guy Cox, MA, DPhil(Oxon), Honorary Associate, Australian Centre for
>> Microscopy& Microanalysis, Madsen Building F09, University of Sydney, NSW
>> 2006
>>
>> Phone +61 2 9351 3176 Fax +61 2 9351 7682
>> Mobile 0413 281 861
>> ______________________________**________________
>> http://www.guycox.net
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:CONFOCALMICROSCOPY@**LISTS.UMN.EDU<[log in to unmask]>]
>> On Behalf Of test_message
>> Sent: Tuesday, 26 June 2012 6:57 PM
>> To: [log in to unmask]**EDU<[log in to unmask]>
>> Subject: Biorad MRC1024 MRC600 Scan and Vis boards
>>
>> *****
>> To join, leave or search the confocal microscopy listserv, go to:
>> http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/**wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy<http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=confocalmicroscopy>
>> *****
>>
>> I am the designer and manufacturer of these boards, and I'm clearing out
>> the office prior to retiring. I have an amount of - mainly - ISA Vis boards
>> which will be skipped unless someone is interested. It needs to be
>> commercially neutral, but I'd rather they found a home than landfill.
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://confocal-microscopy-**
>> list.588098.n2.nabble.com/**Biorad-MRC1024-MRC600-Scan-**
>> and-Vis-boards-tp7578537.html<http://confocal-microscopy-list.588098.n2.nabble.com/Biorad-MRC1024-MRC600-Scan-and-Vis-boards-tp7578537.html>
>> Sent from the Confocal Microscopy List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
--
Martin Wessendorf, Ph.D. office: (612) 626-0145
Assoc Prof, Dept Neuroscience lab: (612) 624-2991
University of Minnesota Preferred FAX: (612) 624-8118
6-145 Jackson Hall, 321 Church St. SE Dept Fax: (612) 626-5009
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