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Hi all,

Random compliance inspections for data storage seem to be vanishingly rare.  I would suggest a much greater concern that original data could prove essential to resolving questions of misconduct, erratum corrections ets.  Journals increasingly follow the lead of JCB and perform manipulation tests on most or all submitted work, and researchers who have not memorized which journal forbids which acts (that is to say, most people) will very badly want their original stuff in case of trouble.  People without their original(ish) data could have a publication rejected or catastrophically delayed or, worse, retracted.  For want of a nail, etc.  

IMO it is a huge risk to get rid of unmodified data and the NIH is trying to help people avoid trouble.  The (decreasing) cost of data storage is annoying but also a sometimes helpful corrective against performing experiments with unnecessary complexity (a real temptation when many scopes can perform multicolor Z series at or near video rate).  In cases where complexity is very much necessary it seems to me that even a decent RAID array costs not so much next to the imaging system it is meant to support.  

All the best, 


TF

Timothy Feinstein, PhD
Visiting Research Associate 
Laboratory for GPCR Biology
Dept. of Pharmacology & Chemical Biology
University of Pittsburgh, School of Medicine 
BST W1301, 200 Lothrop St.
Pittsburgh, PA  15261

On Feb 6, 2013, at 9:25 AM, Steffen Dietzel wrote:

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> 
> I guess you always can argue this case both ways. One example you could mention in your favor ist that many microscopes (their users) use frame averaging to reduce noise. So in a sense you throw away the original data in that case and only a smoothed version is stored.
> 
> If the truth is that you can't possibly store the original videos the only alternative would be to not perform this kind of research, right? The situation may be different in a couple of years, assuming that storage will continue to become cheaper over time.
> 
> At the end of the day you will have to convince whoever is (potentially) auditing you. So you might want to get a statement from them for you case to be on the safe side.
> 
> my 2 cents
> 
> Steffen
> 
>> 
>> 06.02.2013 8:32, O'Brien III, E. Timothy ?????:
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>>> 
>>> Dear Microscopists-
>>> 
>>> Our group has begun using a parallel microscope system to study the movement
>> of fluorescent beads on cells, or in biofilms, mucus, other biological fluids.
>> We then track the bead movements and generate MSD (mean squared displacement)
>> curves for each bead.  Each 1 minute video at 60 FPS takes up about a gigabyte
>> of data storage.  Meanwhile the tracks (position/ time) might take several kB
>> for each bead.  We can take 12 videos simultaneously, so potentially we are
>> generating 12 gB/minute, a terabyte every hour and 25 minutes!
>>> 
>>> We believe that taking an image at the beginning of tracking, and keeping the
>> tracking records would be sufficient for us to troubleshoot our data, since we
>> can't possibly store the original videos.  This would let us know where the
>> beads were at the beginning of the video (on the nucleus?  On the glass?)
>> Signatures of "lost beads" or "stuck beads" are easily identified in control
>> experiments.
>>> 
>>> We are also considering other intermediate data reduction-potentially saving
>> parts of the videos throughout the timecourse.  But this is going to be
>> difficult to implement, and keep track of.  Moreover, the reduction is not
>> nearly as high as taking one frame and keeping the tracking results.
>>> 
>>> What is the community's understanding of the requirements for storing
>> "original" data?  Do we need to keep full videos and spend all our budget on
>> hard drives, or will just the position/time data and an index frame be enough?
>>> 
>>> What other solutions does your group use?
>>> 
>>> Thanks very much!
>>> 
>>> Tim O'Brien
>>> Computer Integrated Systems for Microscopy and Manipulation
>>> UNC Chapel Hill, North Carolina
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Steffen Dietzel, PD Dr. rer. nat
> Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität München
> Walter-Brendel-Zentrum für experimentelle Medizin (WBex)
> Head of light microscopy
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