JEOL Probe Users Listserver Moderator: Ellery Frahm, [log in to unmask], Electron Microprobe Lab, University of Minnesota Post a message: send your message to [log in to unmask] Unsubscribe: send "SIGNOFF PROBEUSERS" to [log in to unmask] On-line help and FAQ: http://probelab.geo.umn.edu/listserver.html * Ritchie, what an exciting prospect! I hope your case will be successful. I work at an institute that's mainly focused on materials research. We are using a medium-old SEM (W cathode) and a medium-new EPMA (JXA-8100). Our researchers as well as our industrial partners appreciate both methods for their respective strengths. Would your department cooperate with the the School of Engineering, i.e. would your new microprobe be available to them? If so, I think they should be quite supportive! According to the website of the Research Centre for Surface and Materials Science (RCSMS), their SEM equipment is new and provides high-performance electron imaging thanks to their Field Emission (FE) sources. A microprobe could and should not compete with that. However, even high-performance FE SEMs can not provide better spectral EDS resolution than the WDS of a microprobe. For example, how do they resolve the problem of line overlaps, such as Mo and S? Especially in our research field of high temperature materials, we often look at alloys containing Mo, and aggressive environments containing S, and we want to be able to tell what happens on and below the metal surface when those alloys are exposed to high temperatures in aggressive environments. You could think of other examples too, and I'm sure the RCSMS would love to have a WDS solution at hand! Another strength of the EPMA clearly is element mapping. Even the coolest FE SEM will produce rather sad looking maps (some examples provided on the RCSMS website). I bet if you show a comparison of EDS / WDS maps this will convince some people! Especially industrial researchers love our colourful WDS maps. Finally, when it comes to precise quantification of alloying elements in special steels or Nickel-base alloys, we know we cannot rely on EDS. Even just the word "standardless" should ring some alarm bells! Of course it will be challenging to make this point without sounding too critical about the work that's been done at the RCSMS so far ;-) Good luck! Gerald ------------------------ Dr. Gerald Schmidt DECHEMA-Forschungsinstitut High Temperature Materials Theodor-Heuss-Allee 25 60486 Frankfurt am Main Germany Tel: +49-69-7564-355 Fax: +49-69-7564-388 E-Mail: [log in to unmask] http://www.dechema-dfi.de DECHEMA-Forschungsinstitut • Stiftung bürgerlichen Rechts Vorstand: Prof. Dr.-Ing. Michael Schütze (Vors.), Priv.-Doz. Dr. Jens Schrader Sitz der Stiftung: Frankfurt am Main Anerkannt durch das Regierungspräsidium Darmstadt unter Az. I13-25d04/11-(12)-720 Steuer-Nr.: 45 255 00182 -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: JEOL-Focused Probe Users List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Im Auftrag von Ritchie Sims Gesendet: Donnerstag, 14. Juni 2012 09:12 An: [log in to unmask] Betreff: [PROBEUSERS] Case for a new EPMA Hi For the past ten years we have been using a JXA-840A with EDS for quantitative geological work, it's been OK, for analytes > about 0.2%, but there is a chance now to make a case for a brand-new 'proper' EPMA. The complication is that we have to find as many potential users, from within and without the University, to support us. In the School of Engineering there are a couple of SemS, with close ties to local industry, and because their standardless analytical packages give element concentrations to two decimal places, they and their users accept that their results are quantitative (!). They are likely to oppose our getting a new EPMA as it would probably reduce their revenue stream. I know virtually nothing of probe applications outside Geology. I would really appreciate hearing of EPMA projects and applications in non-geological fields to help me prepare a case. It would be great to list those for which an EPMA beats an SEM hands-down. cheers Ritchie -- Ritchie Sims Ph D Phone : 64 9 3737599 ext 87713 Microanalyst Fax : 64 9 3737435 Department of Geology email : [log in to unmask] The University of Auckland Private Bag 92019 Auckland New Zealand