For time-lapse studies, I charge a pre-established fixed rate per time-lapse, regardless of how long it is - I don't have any user running experiments for longer than 48 hours. From my point of view, even though we can use the money, the primary aim of the Facility is to help researchers get good results so I don't want to place a user in a position of cutting short an important experiment because their funding is low. Good data, good papers, more funding, more usage.
I hope my boss is not reading this.
Judy
Judy Trogadis
Bio-Imaging Coordinator
St. Michael's Hospital, 7Queen
30 Bond St.
Toronto, ON M5B 1W8, Canada
ph: 416-864-6060 x6337
pager: 416-685-9219
fax: 416-864-5046
[log in to unmask]
>>> Carl Boswell <[log in to unmask]> 7/27/2010 4:37 PM >>>
Re: Core lab services vs assay developmentIf it is a simple modification or new user who needs preliminary data (as for a grant), I help the user setup and collect images for no charge. If it is a new procedure for everyone, I do the first session at no charge to make sure everything is optimized. After that, full charge. My rationale is that the system is being used, and the cost of running it needs to be recovered. If someone is trying to develop either a protocol or algorithm, I view it no differently than someone with a long list of treatments that needs to record results.
A bigger conundrum for me is long-term time-lapse (2-3 days), where the system is on day and night and no one is tending it. How does one justify a $3000 charge for one experiment? Even at half the charge, it is still $1500. I guess the experiment had better work. Anybody have procedures for this?
C
Carl A. Boswell, Ph.D.
Molecular and Cellular Biology
University of Arizona
520-954-7053
FAX 520-621-3709
----- Original Message -----
From: Armstrong, Brian
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: Core lab services vs assay development
We get around this by simply not charging for any development time. We only charge for time spent collecting data (similar to Dr Phillips' suggestion).
There will always be some inherent inequity in the amount of time you help some users over others. I do not see any way around that.
Cheers,
Brian D Armstrong PhD
Light Microscopy Core Manager
Beckman Research Institute
City of Hope
Dept of Neuroscience
1450 E Duarte Rd
Duarte, CA 91010
626-256-4673 x62872
http://www.cityofhope.org/research/support/Light-Microscopy-Digital-Imaging/Pages/default.aspx
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From: Confocal Microscopy List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Robert J. Palmer Jr.
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 11:43 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Core lab services vs assay development
I guess because I don't run a service, I don't understand the problem. You are charging simply for hours of scope time, personnel time, and expendables. Do you have sets of users who lurk around waiting for you to optimize certain protocols before asking you to do identical protocols with their samples? If so, you could charge them on a sliding scale starting at the same cost to the original user. Do you have lab chiefs saying "you charged me $X to process five slides but you only charged my colleague half that for five of his (because it took half the time/expendables)?" If so, you should ask the person who was theoretically paying a premium (?) at the start whether s/he was glad s/he got the results in the first place (!), and whether s/he might be happy with a credit (over and above the reduced time/resources from having optimized things) on the next batch of slides processed identically. However, unless you have already experienced serious cases of the above forms of nit-picking behavior, it seems like an awful lot of bean-counting....... Generally speaking, life is not fair: a lesson that must be frequently re-learned.
This is not a confocal question but is realtive to the management of
microscopy service cores.
In terms of developing a clear and fair policy for isage fees and cost recovery,
the situation is very clear when we are setting up fees for services that are
already established, we charge hourly for the use of equipment and we add
additional changes if we need to provide assistance or training. This is usually
straightforward. The problem is whne we are faced with a project that involves
techniques which are not yet familiar to us or involves development time such
as writing a protocol or algorithm for image analysis. In one hand I think it is
unfair to the first user we charge them for the research and development,
learning curve, etc when afterwards this new application may result in a new
service that the facility can offer from then on... in the other hand, unless we
have R&D built into the operational budget, we need to have a mechanism to
recover some of the costs...
I have been working on core facilities for about 10 years and I always have
handled this problem on a case by case basis, I have never charged strictly
according to the established fees for services, however I am always worried
about the subjectivity...
I would appreciate if anybody could comment on this.
Thanks in advance..
Leoncio
-- Robert J. Palmer Jr., Ph.D.
Natl Inst Dental Craniofacial Res - Natl Insts Health
Oral Infection and Immunity Branch
Bldg 30, Room 310
30 Convent Drive
Bethesda MD 20892
ph 301-594-0025
fax 301-402-0396
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